Winner of Commonwealth Writers Prize 2009, Best First Publication (African region)
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MM: How do you pronounce your name, and where did Celestine come from?
UA: It is pronounced “You-wem”, and I never use Celestine though it is on my passport as my religious name.
MM: Have you ever had anything published before Say You’re One of Them ?
UA: Only in newspapers where my stories were serialised, and in some magazines like The New Yorker.
MM: What will this prize mean for you?
UA: It means a lot. The book was published last year in USA and UK. People often asked how these stories were received in Africa. But there is a sense in which the book has not yet arrived in Africa. Whatever happens when it is read, I can say the book has won the Commonwealth prize with African judges. It will give me some profile.
MM:This is not light reading.
UA: Yeah, it is not light reading. I am dealing with serious issues .
MM: How did you come to write about children?
UA: When I started writing fiction I wrote about adults, and I kept exploring, and it struck me that there was no single book set in in various countries of Africa in the voices of children by a single author. Once I had defined my task, I felt the excitement and the challenge to write about foreign countries, cultures, and issues. I embraced the challenge.
There are plenty of articles written about Darfur and Rwanda ostensibly about children -they use a child in the opening paragraphs to get your sympathy, and go on to statistics and history and a possible solution, and then two or three lines at the end to throw the beginning back at you. I decided to have the reader stay with the child the whole way through.The child is not judgemental and records what he or she sees and feels. I want the readers to process this world with the child, and see the absurdity of what adults do. A child sees things he understands later. These were the sort of things I was interested in exploring. If a child lives through a war he has seen a lot, but may have no understanding of what he is narrating.
MM: You have been teaching in a seminary in Zimbabwe. Is there a way forward in that country?
UA: Life is possible there. My heart goes out to the people of Zimbabwe. We can talk about what the white people did to the country, and we can talk about what Mugabe has done to the country, and the best way to address the injustices done by the white settlers is not what Mugabe is doing. He is not interested in people only politics.If a white person leaves Zimbabwe, countries like NZ, USA and UK effortlessly accept them.The black people whom you claim you want to help mostly stay home. The embargos and boycotts are killing them. Zimbabwe does not depend on oil. The land is very fertile and there is a lot of rain. I think to myself why don’t you plant now you have the land. It is very painful to see the people at Mass shrinking every Sunday. One month there was no bread to be had – I don’t mean no croissants, but no bread whatsoever.
We have 100 Jesuit seminarians in Harare in a community close to the University of Zimbabwe. We were not much affected by hunger, because we had a connection to foreign money, and a way of shipping everything in from South Africa. But the people are suffering. Once anyone has ruled a country for ten years, I think you should go. if you don’t, you become the issue, and people won’t work with you.
MM: What about the Muslim Christian-interface in your stories. It is an issue in several of your stories?
Map from Frontespiece of the book showing the countries where the stories are situated. Map designed by John Barnet
You are referring to the story set in Ethiopia. Nigeria is even more explosive. In the last decade more than 12,000 people have been killed in religious conflict. The tiniest thing can set it off. It is all about the control of scarce resources. When basic resources are threatened people become irrational. Look at Hurricane Katrina – people in New Orleans behaved like people in Bangladesh and Somalia, fighting for bread and water, for that last seat on the bus for their child. In a similar way the Niger Delta is exploding. It could not happen in NZ because you have plenty of food and clean water. If ever these basic things go, you will see what hunger, fear, and frustration does.
MM: Is there dialogue between Christians and Islam?
UA:Yes there is, but things are not good in Nigeria. The dialogue starts in the schools, but education is not in good shape. We can put it in the curriculum, but when education is down, and elections are rigged, and electricity is not constant, and there is a lot of violence, dialogue becomes difficult. People will not vote if they think their vote will not count. There are extremists on both sides, and a lot of intimidation.
In the Muslim North, Sharia law was touted as the solution to community problems. It has not helped. Politicians are still stealing the money, but won’t allow themselves to be tried in the Sharia courts where they know their hands could be cut off. They prefer the common law courts. All the lies and manipulation are plain to see.
In the dialogue, the Bishops lead for the Christians, and the Sultans for the Muslims. But the street preachers are a different breed of people altogether. But if it was not for the dialogue, the strife would have been much worse.
MM: What is your ministry now in Nigeria?
UA: I work in Christ the King parish in Lagos with 15,000 parishioners. We baptise about 70 babies each month and 300 at Easter. We have lots of weddings and funerals, and Reconciliation is celebrated in the church. On the last day in Holy Week, 700 people turned up. The more I stay in my home country, I realise that the problem in Nigeria is Leadership. Corrupt people have stolen all the money, and a genuine honest person will not get into power because it will threaten the hegemony of these wrong-doers.
MM: And will you find time to write?
UA: Right now I am not trying to find time. After three years involved with writing and books, I am throwing myself into my present parish ministry. Writing is a ministry of sorts but it is a disembodied ministry. I have missed the continuity that parish life affords. I have been in this parish only since last December. In the long run I will try to achieve a balance between writing and hands-on ministry. If I ever take a fellowship at some university in NZ or USA, I will try to attach myself to a parish to keep that part of my life alive. When I first arrived in the parish no one knew of my writing. Now they know, people come to me and say “I have a great story you should tell” and I always reply: “Go and write your own story!” What they don’t realise is that in my book I deal with larger issues raised by the stories. Some huge tragedies in Africa are hard to get your head round, but through these stories of children it provides something the reader can connect with. I try to personalise the issues in a less judgemental, less dogmatic, and doctrinaire way.
MM: What do think of New Zealand?
UA: It is a beautiful country. I am very impressed with the place Maori people have in your society. I liked hearing their language. I hear there is dialogue going on about historical issues.
MM: We still have a way to go, and there are problems…
UA: Well even St. Paul did not get it right. He found himself not doing the things he wanted, and doing some of the very things he hated. Thank you for the interview and your interest.
